Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to today's episode of Suite at the Table. I'm super excited to have May Lam with me. Thank you so much for joining me today, May.
So May is the CIO at Australian Payments plus, the organization behind some of the most important Australia's most important important payments infrastructure.
May, you've got an absolute amazing career history. Over 27 years of technology leadership experience across banking, fintech and the public sector throughout Asia Pacific region.
Alongside her role at AP plus, she is chair of the Emerging Payments Association Asia Advisory Board. That's a mouthful. Serves on Hedera's governing council and advises the G20 on cross border payment initiatives.
And a fun fact before we get started, May was recently featured on the COVID of the CIO Magazine's global edition in March 2026. So Mae, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here. It's really generous of you to give up your time. I know you're busy.
Maybe we could kick off by you describing how everything started. Did you imagine you would be sitting here 27 years later as the CIO of AP plus, how did it all begin?
How's your career tracked over those years?
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me here. It is really a privilege to be here. There's never too busy to talk about the leadership in my journey and I would like to share more so that more people can be pumped having some kind of inspiration to become who they want to be.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that's brilliant.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: So for me, how I started my career was back in the late 90s. I was a software engineer during the chat processing and my journey like when I graduated. I always want to be a cio.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Really.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: In fact my dream, I said dream was not go because I never, never thought that it would be attainable is to be on a CIO magazine. So. Yes, but that was.
No, but that's so little that I knew then because I was chasing title for a long time.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: And I didn't know what the CIO was, what a leader really about. So my career, what I really surprised was that it was never really linear and a lot of setback, a lot of detour.
And I thought that would be set me back, it turned out was the biggest gift to prepare me to become who I could become.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: And yeah. And then the first time when I became the CIO then I realized that oh my God, I didn't sign up for it. Yeah.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Really?
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think that's the surprise is that I did chase title and then once I stopped chasing title, became knowing who I am. And why I'm in the market, what's my purpose and the life change and at the end still come back to the cio. But now I know why I want to be a cio.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Okay. So why, why do you, what, what makes you get up and go to work every day and keep on doing it?
[00:03:23] Speaker B: It's so I see the leader. Being a leader is not having all the answers, is creating the conditions, creating the environment, helping people understand what the desires to have and then helping people to be successful. And when the people are successful, the business will be successful and then the impact is the most important thing to me is how can we through our own journey, every single one, contribute through our journey to make a positive impact for generation to come?
[00:03:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: And that really excites me.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Amazing. If you, if you look back at your, your long career, is there ever a time where you were like, no, I can't do this anymore. I've had it.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Many times.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: So I, I think the first time that it dawned on me was when I became mom for the first time. And that was at the period that it was a GFC big disruption. I was an enterprise architect and then overnight I became a contractor and do whatever I could because I need the money. And it was so hard because I didn't get any help. Both my husband and I, our families are in overseas, we do not have relatives and, and paycheck after paycheck and the childcare wasn't true. So for about almost five years I was break even.
I stay at work so that I could.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: Were you full time or full time? And so both you and your partner were full time.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: Full time and there was no work from home then. There's no such phase.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Five days a week in the office. Yeah.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: And just day in, day out, like break even, but just to stay relevant. So really.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Okay, you were, you were thinking about kind of longer term.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Yeah. If I stopped then I will be irrelevant and I would be unemployable.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: And hence that, that was the period time that I keep thinking, do I really want it? Yeah, I really want to stay in it.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: I, I, I don't think I could have done that. I was, I was actually chatting to someone yesterday and I was saying my husband was away a couple of weeks ago and my children are now a bit older as well.
But after two weeks of being on my own, I was ready to cricket. There's a lot of shouting going on and I just said, my hat goes off to people who do this who are either single parents or who both parents are working full time. Because I just don't know how you could navigate that. It would be so hard.
[00:06:05] Speaker B: Yeah. But I think that was beautiful in a way that I realized that I no longer represent who I am.
Because along the journey, people ask me, why did you choose technology?
You are the minority. A woman in technology.
And then when I first came to this country, I couldn't speak English. So that.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: When was that? Me?
[00:06:28] Speaker B: That was 93. So I came here to study.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: And do my uni and then went back to Hong Kong. So I couldn't speak. But also I was so worried about my academic results because I was an overseas student and my parents, like, sacrifice themselves so that they can send me here.
So all my focus was study. I didn't. I did not build my community. I mean, I did not talk too much and.
Or didn't even have many friends. So when I went back to Hong Kong, I still have broken English. So I migrated here in 2003. I was very shy.
I couldn't speak confidently. So that was already like a few years, five years into my career journey. So it was quite hard from that may.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: To become I am today. So people will ask me, how do you overcome. How can you be a immigrant and then be relevant and be. Be someone that people aspire to? And also I did ask being the question of like, you're Asian, so Asian supposed to be quiet. Or they have kind of stereotype. And my Persona gave people a different vibes.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: So over the years in my journey, people keep asking me the question. Then I realized that I am the minority without realizing that.
So then I represent who I represent the minority. So that's why I can't give up.
Because if I give up, there's one more. Less voice to speak up that's narrow the path for the future leaders.
And if I want to change the dial, I need to be there.
So that's the reason gave me that I cannot give up because I am minority.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: That's. That's an incredible story and really inspirational. Do you still consider yourself as shy or introverted? Or do you think you've. You've changed in terms of kind of personality?
[00:08:40] Speaker B: So I don't think I will ever change. I am an introvert, but I learned to be extrovert. In the commercial world.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: In the society.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Because having the voice is important.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Earning to sit at a table without the voice doesn't mean anything.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: No.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And handsets, like, that's certain. Skills I have to force myself to learn and bet myself constantly telling myself that I belong.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, that's. That's your, that's your kind of secret power almost.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So I still do have imposter syndrome. Unfortunately. It's not something that is easy to shake.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Yeah. It's your foundations, isn't it?
[00:09:21] Speaker B: Yeah. But I, I stopped asking for approval and I stopped actually proving myself.
And in the past I've spent a long time, probably even before 40, to care about what people think of me.
So I'm doing things that just to please them without realizing that I actually have a value. I have a point of view, I have my perspective. And diversity is good.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So wasn't really myself. And also at the time I was chasing title only.
Maybe it's that life journey. When I turned 40 or turning 40, I started to realize why am I, why was I born like I'm almost 40 now and like what's the purpose of life? So once I realized that, then the 10 years now that's the whole journey is so different.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: I can be really be myself back myself. And the confidence come within.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting that you had that almost moment of clarity. Yeah. And I imagine once you've made that shift and kind of become more comfortable with yourself, it's.
It will be quite invigorating and because to be always worrying about what other people think or to feel that you don't belong and you don't have a purpose, that after a while must. Must have got pretty draining.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's very tiring because I care too much of what people think.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: Than actually doing the thing that I'm supposed to do.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: I'm good at.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you think the maybe more introvert side of your personality has been in some ways a superpower in, in a leadership capacity. Do you think that that's ever helped you at all?
[00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah. No one actually asked me this question before.
I think it does because introvert is where the energy.
Yeah. So think in a way that I'm quite intuitive and I love to build one on one relationship.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Like I love to understand each individuals
[00:11:42] Speaker A: so
[00:11:45] Speaker B: as like the relationship is genuine. It's not at a superficial level. I'm not saying extrovert art. But my interest is really understand.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: Yeah. You take the time to listen to
[00:11:56] Speaker B: someone and that is in a way it is a superpower because I have more perspective. I can take us like be calm and take a step back and digest what's happening in the room.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know if you've read Ego is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday and he talks a lot about introverts versus extroverts and how extroverts often it's ego driven and they. They're really quick. They just want to get there point across. And in the rush to do that, they are then like, not listening, not reading the Room, and therefore, like, really minimizing their opportunity to learn from the people around them.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: It's quite interesting. Quite interesting. Okay.
Is there one moment that sticks out for you, which was the toughest moment in your career and how did you get through that?
[00:12:57] Speaker B: I probably would go back to the stage.
Yeah. So when I realized that the first time when I had the opportunity to be the divisional cio, then I realized that this is not the role for me.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Really?
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Because again, because I was chasing title, I didn't know the responsibility behind.
And also I wasn't ready to have the conversation, to own the narrative, to be strategic in front of the board, for example.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Right. Okay.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: And what that actually means, being a leader, as a people leader and the whole journey made me feel like, oh, my God, I've been doing everything that I could possibly to become who I am today. And I only realized that this is not what I want.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: So.
[00:13:55] Speaker B: So then I left the. The bank.
[00:13:59] Speaker A: Okay. And that must have been quite a bold move to give up a job that you'd aspired for.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Yes, Because I just think that someone could do a better job than me and I don't deserve what I had so that it was maybe a midlife crisis. So then I left the bank and then I started my own startup.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: And at a time that overnights also realize that, oh my God, I don't have this glossy business card to credit myself.
All I have is me.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: So when I talk to people, all I have is Mainland. I can put a CEO, founder, whatever I put on the name card. Doesn't mean anything.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: So then that was a realization that all I have is Mayland is my value, what do I bring to the table?
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: So. And then also that was a journey that also will back then was all about what is your big hack and things. So I spend time to realize or to find what is my purpose. So my purpose, I'm still proud to say, is to level the inequality of wealth distribution. So it's very noble. So I think the toughest moment is how transition from executive role to nobody and pretend to be somebody and make the business work and it actually didn't at the end but it was great journey because it opened a lot of conversation, a lot of doors. My network was so different and all the entrepreneurial energy really drive me to become who I am and finding the purpose. So it is tough because it's a big transition in 15 months but I'm so glad that I went through that. That was tears doubt.
Yeah and like lower self esteem, constantly rejection, redefining who I am questioning that my true value.
So it was. So it's not one moment but it's
[00:16:03] Speaker A: a period kind of soul searching. What was the business? What was your startup?
[00:16:08] Speaker B: Yeah so it was not payments but it was more focusing on the services and transactions.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: So.
[00:16:16] Speaker B: So it was with me and my friend that as I was not the sole co founder to look at let's say a small business in Queensland making soap.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: If they want to grow how would they go about it? So can they possibly go international and then how would they go? So it's not about the transaction but it's about like help me, helping me.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: So the same size of the business. So let's say going to overseas, let's say to a ASEAN to sell to asean. What's the legal impact? What's the accounting impact? What's that? What is a distributor? So it's is the linking the this me or the same size of the business together each other out.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. I know because I started precision so 21 years ago I think well I, I was on my own as well. I, I didn't have a business partner at that point and yeah there was a lot of soul searching that went on I would say for a good 12 months and I would regularly be going home going I can't do this, I'm no good at this.
So I can definitely kind of empathize.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: But this is conversation.
[00:17:31] Speaker A: It's crazy. But it's crazy like what your mind does. I, I think it's not an easy way to be but also I think it, it keeps you on your toes because you are constantly like no, I'm gonna do this, I can do this.
[00:17:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And also the financial pressures.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Can I make this month?
[00:17:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
But then you know you've got the wins as well when you get your first placement. I remember it was back then I got a check, I think it's from an RMA or someone and I was like yes, did my first and I went and placement and went and banked the check which was a great feeling so it's highs and lows isn't it? But I think what a great experience for you to have gone through that kind of process of doing a startup.
It would make you be able to have.
Yeah. Just that different angle from. Apart from the large corporates where you've got the title and the business card and you've got the EA or whatever. I think it's quite a. A humbling experience. Definitely.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Definitely.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: Okay.
Is there a decision that you've made that was a big risk that could have gone badly wrong? Have you ever had that before where it's been like the biggest risk perhaps that you've taken in your career?
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Biggest risk. I always do take risks I think.
Yeah. Because it's especially when people ask because I thought that if someone saw that in me then I should try it. So I always like with like I'm not a risk averse person. I just like open mind and try different things.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Consider things But I think that one thing that I would say is from a government job to start up let's do a fintech scale. Yeah. So very different. Yeah. Because at the time that I know it sounds maybe like controversial but I love my role in the government.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: Did you?
[00:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: And what was your role in government?
[00:19:37] Speaker B: So it was a running the technology business management.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: And it's bringing that like cost transparency.
So that's every single dollar sense saved I feel like I'm giving back to the taxpayers.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: So it's very fulfilling. And the people around sense of purpose
[00:19:59] Speaker A: in that role I imagine.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And also because it was in the middle of a transformation.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: And it's very exciting.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: And the people that I work with was amazing.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: So I have a really great environment. I wake up in the morning I actually really want to go to work.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: So from that environment and then to choose on a fintech.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Very different.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Very different. But it also great because it's go back to CIO role.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's. That's just that having that baggage in a way in my mind that I fell the first time.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Right. Okay. So you were nervous going into a CIO role.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. And I think that was the risk that I took but I'm so glad that I did it.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it's the way that sometimes everything that magnify in our mind even the failure that I thought that I had it wasn't.
And I only realized that when I'm actually back in it then that's all these conversations the stakeholders, the problem solving, everything just came back and realized that that was a part of the journey and yeah, I'm so glad that I did that. And also that the conversation again, the network Fintech also represented the minority and is there to serve the underserved because the big banks couldn't serve.
So instead of having that purpose of like helping this me market to thrive, to grow.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: After I find my purpose. And that was phenomenal.
[00:21:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Wow. Incredible.
So obviously kind of what I can hear from your story is that a key to your successful career is discovering that purpose and being able to have roles that allow you to fulfill that purpose.
Yes.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that's the purpose of the company and the purpose that need to be aligned with my purpose and then the whole values. So what other. So I see the purpose is that more like the North Star and then the, the core anchor are the values. So also the company and my value need to align as well.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Because it's. That's misalignment. Whether it's the values or the purpose,
[00:22:34] Speaker A: it would not work. No, no. Yeah.
Sense. What, what's kind of the best piece of advice you've ever had and sometimes people have had advice and not necessarily take it. So taking it. So did you, did you take that advice as well?
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Yeah. So can I share a longer story? You can cut it out.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: Go for it. Yeah.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: So when I was still very early on in my career, maybe a couple years after I graduate, got a bit stupid and greedy. So I got into the margin lending.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: And I lost a lot of money.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: Right.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: And I feel very shameful that I, I couldn't ask my parents, I couldn't ask my relatives, I couldn't ask my friends for money.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: So. And I just have to dig myself out of the hole and to do that because I was still a graduate, I couldn't get more money. I, I love technology. I couldn't leave it. So I have to get the side hustle.
So I joined the multi marketing type of products.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: And so that's the one that, so I can get more sales and get more like incentive and do my multi marketing things. And through those journey, that's that brand or any brand will actually pump you up because you have to sell continuously, especially cocoa.
Not being a salesperson, I learned a lot and actually go to every single of those seminars to pump myself up. And one thing they said was that you can have anything that you want but the sequence of having things is being doing having a lot of People just do and do and do. And when they have it, they still to justify, to prove themselves why they have it. Like.
Yeah. And instead of being the person.
So that's like if you want to be someone, you have to be. Be that person. Yeah, like that person. And then the conversation, the stakeholders, your mindset, everything will come with it.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: And I was still quite early in my, in my 20s and I'm so glad that I took that advice.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: And never look back.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: So for the last 20 odd years I've been doing the same. Same thing. Whatever I want, I just be the person first. Of course I'm not lie. Lying is I work bloody hard.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Or need to work smart as well. Surrounding yourself with the team. Yeah.
And then we have it. But it's almost like once that you almost have it, it's for me, I'll be like, okay, what's the next thing? What's the biggest impact? I can, I can contribute.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.
A real eye opener that would have been. How long did you have to do
[00:25:20] Speaker B: your side hustle for two years and
[00:25:23] Speaker A: then still do your full time job as well?
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was quite a huge debt.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: Oh gosh.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: But I did it. So.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Like. And also that sense of achievement and go out the comfort zone being an introvert and to do Sash.
And that was also great learning for me too.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: I can understand. Understand that. So recruitment is sales.
And I remember when I first started out, I was like, I can't do this. This is. But it was back in the night. Yeah, yeah. 90s, early 90s, where it was like a revolving door. It was in London.
And yes. Shy girl from up north starting in London, there's all these people week on week. Some would be coming in, some would be coming out. So I just was like, I've just got to do this otherwise I'm gonna get sacked.
It was like sink or swim. But yeah. Yeah. The, the sense of achievement that you get from becoming successful in something that isn't, you know, not necessarily natural. Yeah, it's. Yeah. I think that's.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Even a bigger sense of achievement than if you find something maybe a bit easier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
In terms of women in leadership, what's something that we carry as women in leadership that perhaps men don't? Is there anything that we have to take on that you see or you've seen in your career journey?
[00:27:00] Speaker B: I think it's expectations.
I mean refer to. Have you seen the movie Barbie?
[00:27:08] Speaker A: No. Yeah, I've seen A lot of the trailers for it.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: So that was a monologue that Gloria mentioned and that made me teared because it's talk about the.
I think the expectation that we make to ourselves.
Like we have to be perfect but not too perfect. Yeah, yeah. We have to care for everyone because we think that there's a expectation of us.
The natural. I mean it is real. There's a natural boys club. But the women, we don't have women club. And just naturally we don't network in this way. And not all the women support women, to be very honest.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: Right, I agree.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: So we are against ourselves and we think that the whole world is against us.
And yeah. It's just. That's the constant again that maybe because when I was younger always think that the expectation. But the expectation I gave myself and I think people gave me so constantly proving. Constantly proving myself and just worked so hard and may not have the same gain.
And the imposter syndrome I think is stronger. I mean stereotype in women than in men.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: We talk ourselves out and then talk ourselves up and I see a lot of women because naturally that we do need to take the carol or when like when we are lucky enough to be a mom, then we take the met leave and come back. I see so many women just like taught themselves. Done.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: So that they can get a job instead of like think about what are the transferable skills. Being a mum is not easy.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: No.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: So I know there's a huge transition and a huge growth as any woman would do becoming a mom. And we forgot about those learning that can apply in work and ourselves.
[00:29:13] Speaker A: Done. Yeah.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think that's at the hurdle and then for. For people like my age thought that okay, most people think that you make it like.
But actually not because now I'm facing menopause.
So the. The brain fog. That's what I have here. Just in case I need to write down what I'm trying to say.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: And it's all real and sometimes I come across nervous, but it's actually just hot flush.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: I know, I know.
[00:29:41] Speaker B: So it feels like it's just biologically it's just never stop either.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean you get through motherhood. Not, not. I'm saying it's a thing to get through. But you get through that and then things are settled for a bit and then. Yeah. Like you say when you. You're my age, then you're in menopause.
And I think we've only really recently just started having conversations around kind of women Menopause in the workplace.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:10] Speaker A: And I do think it needs to be talked about much more because it's
[00:30:14] Speaker B: a society's issue is not women issue.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Women have been going through menopause forever, haven't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And why is it that we are suddenly starting to talk about it? I don't know the actual stat, but I was surprised at how high it is of the amount of people that end up leaving their. Women leaving their roles around my age or the amount of women who have anxiety and depression.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: So it's a massive. It's a massive thing that. And I see that a lot of managers don't want to talk about all periods and things and then. It's ridiculous.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: It's just ridiculous.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: If you could go back and tell your younger self something, what, what would that be? Me
[00:31:07] Speaker B: back myself earlier.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Having the voice.
Yeah.
Telling myself that I belong wherever I go.
And I think the most important thing is having my voice.
So I didn't find my voice until older and I missed a lot of opportunity because just not speaking up. Too afraid to think of what people think of me.
So I think that I would tell myself just back myself.
Be proud of who I am.
Be proud of the individuality and having my voice.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
That's so good that you're so honest about that because I think a lot of people looking at you and looking at how you present your role, your career would never necessarily know that behind the scenes that earlier on in your career, you perhaps were not as confident as you come across today.
[00:32:10] Speaker B: So not incredible. When I was in year two, I was diagnosed with speech problem.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: Wow. Really?
[00:32:18] Speaker B: So I went to the speech therapy.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: And my whole primary school I did the mime and the drama and the music behind to express myself than my voice. So I was trained or in my mind I was too shame to speak up.
Yeah. Because I was living in Hong Kong and my parents are from Shanghai.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: My relatives speak Mandarin. So I'm in the household of three different dialects.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: So.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: So now it's a great thing, right?
[00:32:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:55] Speaker B: But then I was miss diagnosed in year two that I have accent. They thought that was a speech problem.
I just have accent.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: It was just an accent because of the three different dialects that were at home.
[00:33:08] Speaker B: So then I was put into this speech therapy for years.
Unnecessarily. But it lowered my confidence.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: Yes. It would have had a big impact.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: And then when I go to the secondary school and only took a very, very nurturing teacher to saw that in me. So he put me deliberate under the spotlight. He put me on the stage.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Right.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: He gave me all the opportunity to speak and that's how I find my voice.
Then I came to this country when I was 17, like in the early 90s, I couldn't speak English, so it put me back to that state.
So I have to learn again. So there's quite a few time in my life that I lost my voice and. And yeah. And to keep coming back. And then now I only realize that I still, I still have accent, but it's a good thing. Means that I have a more diverse background.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: But then when I was young, I just didn't know.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: Yeah, you wouldn't want to have.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: I just want to blend in. Exactly.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I wanted to blend in. Was it easier like the second time round when you came to Australia and you found, oh, I've got a try and learn English again. Or. Or learn English.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: No.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: Or did you have like a bit of PTSD from you earlier?
[00:34:28] Speaker B: Because I was.
I was an overseas student by myself.
I was sent to the boarding school and it was year 12. I didn't.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: I didn't have laid up time.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Right.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: So immediately I had to do the hsc, learn English.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: Strange country.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So all this pressure. So I didn't really think that whether it's easy, I just think there's no option because again, my parents sacrifice themselves a lot so that I could have opportunity, I could have a chance. So if I don't seize the moment in a way that I wasted their life.
So, yeah, there's no.
[00:35:11] Speaker A: What a lot of pressure.
I think many wouldn't have been able to rise to the challenge the way you have. I think it's very inspiring what you've.
[00:35:19] Speaker B: No, thank you. But I don't think that I. At the time, I thought it was pressure. I just thought that's.
[00:35:23] Speaker A: That's how it is.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: Yeah. How it is. And because I want. I actually do want more.
And I believe since I was little kids that I meant for more. And I also think to my parents that are brain, they never undersold me. They always say that May, you can be whoever you want to be.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: Amazing. Yeah.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: As long as not criminal.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: Side note, not that you would ever consider being a criminal.
That's cool. When you've had a shocker of a day.
How do you wind down May Exercise.
[00:36:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I love my exercise. I love physical fitness because also that's what I believe.
Input and output. Like. Like, very grateful that I'm healthy person.
So I have no excuses.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: So if I can't manage my physical fitness means that I.
Yeah. I just. I couldn't manage anything.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: I couldn't even control.
[00:36:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: That. And also there's a promise that I made to myself.
Once I make a promise to myself, I never break. So it's the exercise. Exercise give me the energy and also give me the headspace.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: Because constantly very noisy. But when I'm exercise, I only focus on the exercise.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: And. Yeah. And that will give me back the energy.
I love endurance training because that is the thing that's.
It's all about a mind.
[00:37:03] Speaker A: Certainly got some grit. You've certainly got some grit and it's obviously working for you.
Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate your time. I've loved chatting to you and getting to know you a bit more. Thank you so much, mate.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: No, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you.
