Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Suite at the Table. Hosted by Jill Ryder, each episode brings you honest conversations with senior technology and data leaders about the choices, challenges and defining moments that shaped their journey.
Because every seat at the table has a story, this podcast is brought to you by Precision Sourcing.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Good morning. Welcome to the Suite at the Table. Today I'm excited to be joined by Connie Beckham, an experienced digital and transformation executive with over 25 years of global experience across consulting, managed services, M and A and large scale enterprise transformation.
Based in Melbourne, Connie is a member of the National Executive Group of IRBIS where she leads the technology, digital and spatial functions and is passionate about building high performing, inclusive teams that deliver smarter, more efficient ways of working big. Welcome to you, Connie. Thanks for joining me today and making the time to have a chat to me.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: Thank you, Jill. Well, yeah, no problems at all.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Fantastic. So let's dive in and maybe start by looking at your career, which has been, it's an impressive career.
How has your career panned out versus what you'd planned? Was this all part of a big plan that you just executed or has it changed as kind of things evolved?
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely changed.
Probably showing my age a little bit here. But when you start your career out in the 80s or 90s, technology wasn't really a dominant capability back then.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: So I started my career off in the legal world in law and then I veered into technology in the early 90s, so it was a great move and I, and I veered in that area, whereas it was just starting when, you know, there was the odd PC around and CC mail was optional to use when I think about it. But yeah, it was very accidental. But I'm really glad it did that.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Wow. Okay, so what made you make the shift from you were pursuing a legal career. What, what were you, what did you start out doing?
[00:02:08] Speaker A: I just, I didn't feel stimulated by that repetitive activity in the legal world, so. And I can still recall the day that I walked up to the managing partner and said, look, I'm going to resign. And he said, well, hang on a minute, can you just give me 24 hours? And I really do think about Paul quite often because it was one of those moments which was a bit of a sliding door. I remember thinking, oh, I really just want a new start. I'd been there for a long time and traveled through many different roles.
And they said, look, there's this new area called information services. It might take off, but why don't you go over there and do a bit of work there and manage the legal contracts. And so I did that and it just pivoted from there. It went from managing procurement and legal to project management, to really firing up as technology was starting to grow and grow and grow. So it was a fundamental shift in the direction of my career. And yeah, I'm pretty thankful that I gave it a go. So I think it's big creative is just give something a go sometimes. Don't just shut the door.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And how did you get into leadership then, within the technology space?
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I think well, I just kept on traveling and I got opportunities as time went on, you know, from. From being in that role there that I just spoke about, to leading my first team, to implementing a service desk mindset into.
Into the law firm I was working with, to managing a larger team of projects. And then there came a point in time where I was running a portfolio of a program of work, and one of the vendors that I was working with had asked me before to join them.
And it. It was just. Wasn't great timing. I had a young baby, um, and thought, oh, this isn't great. I don't really want to change jobs just yet. And then I'd had another. My son was born. So I had two children. And they'd asked me again. And then the third time they asked me, I remember thinking, this is probably it. They're not going to ask me again. And it was just to join a managed services consulting company.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: And I'd been at one. One place of employment for such a long time. I remember thinking this would be a great way to be employed, but work across many industries. And that was quite pivotal in my career. And I said yes.
And that's really where my leadership started. Really growing. Because then I went into consulting and I started managing outsourcing and managed services portfolios at many different clients. And I had many, many teams. And I think that was the. That will ascend. Yep.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I guess that kind of consulting piece would have given you exposure to so many different customers, technology landscapes.
How was it then? So how old were your kids when you did that?
[00:04:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So Lachlan would have been just trying to think now. I think Lachlan would have been about four, three or four. My daughter would have been. Yes. School age. So she was sick about six. So, yeah.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: Oh, wow. So you.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: But. But not baby babies. But, yeah, but, yeah.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Still. Still needing quite a lot of care. How. How did you navigate that then? Taking on a big role and having young children?
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Oh, look, I think I'm very fortunate. My husband is a teacher and I think we really do complement each other and we're both very hands on parents. So the kids have been very lucky to have dad on school holidays and dad home earlier than me. So, you know, I think when you set yourself up for the next career move, you've got to think about all the things around you that can support you.
Sometimes it's not just children. You might have elderly parents or whatever it is that needs you. You do have to think about the balance and I think I've always been able to maintain the balance through the support of my husband and my family. You just, you just need that. Yeah.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Oh yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, my husband's away again, but it's.
He's. He's doing the Inca Trail at the moment.
Yeah, well, it's all a bit too. And like, like you say, balancing because my mum was actually unwell or she's been unwell for a long time before she sadly died. But that meant I was in the UK a lot.
So he had all these trips that he had to keep canceling anyways. He's definitely paying me back now.
But the reason why I say this is my kids are a bit older, they're 13 and 15, but oh my goodness, there is no way that I could do my job full time and might be a single parent. My hat goes off to those single parents that actually do do that because it's just insane. Like the.
Yeah, yeah. A lot of plate. Yeah. A lot of play juggling and more lunch orders and things. Yeah. How have your priorities then shifted over time in terms of kind of career versus family or personal life? Has it, has it changed as you've gone through that?
[00:07:15] Speaker A: There are times where you. Well, I've personally found that there are times where you have to weigh up.
Is it going to tip me and the family over the edge if I do this? You know, so, yeah, look, there has probably been some opportunities that I have missed out on because I just couldn't do that juggle. I can remember. I can remember taking one phone call when my son was about. Oh, he would have been about five months old. It would have been the biggest promotion of my career. And the person that called me at the time rang up and said, hey, Connie, what's for dinner? And I said, and by. At this stage I was still working one day a week remotely. What's for dinner? I'm like, I don't know, I'm not sort of thinking about dinner right now.
But he was ringing up to suss out when I would come back to work because he had a promotion to offer but didn't tell me that.
So when, after we hung up the phone, he basically called up another person in my network I'm still in touch with and offered him the role.
And I still look back and go, wow, I wonder what would have happened if he had said, I've got this role. When are you planning on coming back to work?
How can we make this work? You're the right person for the role, but that conversation never happened.
Yeah. So I think, you know, there are times where your focus is different and I don't that focus because my kids were little. And, you know, there is a moment in time where you. You can still close your eyes and see that because you've got these are walking children to school or anything like that.
But, yeah, I do wonder what would it have turned out like had that we not had that conversation. There's been other times where I just couldn't travel to a conference or a global conference because the kids were too small or, you know, there were just. There are just swings and roundabouts.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: But you just your priorities and go, what's important? And if someone can't understand that, well, that's probably more on them than me.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you've got to do what's right for you at that particular point in your life.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Sometimes it is a bit of a juggling game, but, yeah, I think I've seen. I've seen it play out both. Both ways, I guess I've seen it where people felt they couldn't say no, and then they've. They've taken a promotion and it actually has been too much. And, yeah, it didn't like family and work life suffered.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: And there may be others where they might have passed up an opportunity much like yourself, but in the longer term, that has actually played out to their advantage, I'd say.
Yeah, they've been more successful in the longer term in their role.
What's been, Connie, what's been the toughest moment in your career and what got you through it?
[00:10:05] Speaker A: I'd have to say. And it still stings to even talk about it, but the global financial crisis, the gfc.
Definitely. Definitely.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: I think, you know, there was a lot going on in the world back then, and lots of companies were making huge redundancies, and I was definitely at the pinnacle of my consulting career, and I was an executive, and I was loving it. I loved my role. And I got the call that there was a Restructure, and my role had been made redundant. So it was impacted and it was just such an awful time to be not just made redundant, but to be a senior person out in the market. And that was definitely was the first time I'd been made redundant.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:10:51] Speaker A: But it was just. It was. It was pretty horrible. You know, I've been redundant a couple of times since then, so I'm getting quite good at it. But I. I think that definitely was the worst. And I just. And it was going out into a market where there were many executives.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: Right. It was tough, tough, tough market. Yeah. Was it a surprise when you made. Didn't. Were you expecting it?
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah, well, there were rumors of it and then. And then I'd been given an alternative role for six months, and so I got into that for six months, but it came to an end. Yeah. That it just.
The company just couldn't afford to keep everyone on. So there was another wave. So I got. I got things ready. But it was still horrific because you. I only had such a small amount of time to make that right. But the market was just so flat. Like really, really flat.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
And what.
What.
Apart from obviously losing your role and the stress of finding another role in a very tough market, what. What was going on for you personally? Like, how. How did you feel during that period?
[00:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I was lucky to have the support, love of my family. But I think you just take it when you haven't. I think anyone that's been made redundant, particularly the first time you do think it's about you, and you think it's about something you could have changed or you could have influenced, and you start questioning all these things, but you realize it's actually not about you most of the time. It's a numbers game. It's a strategic game, is something bigger there, but it's actually not about the person.
But I think the first time I was made redundant, that's what was going through my head, is what could I have done differently? Was it my performance? And of course it's not. And when you're made redundant, people will tell you that, but it's. You do. You do just pick on everything about your own capability, and it affects your confidence for a while as well. But it's realized when you reflect back. And when I reflect back, I know it wasn't about me. But, you know, at that time, you do think that.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I think it's hard not to take it personally when it's happening to you. And then you'd be thinking why me? Why not next to me? What, what did you learn about yourself throughout that process?
[00:12:59] Speaker A: Oh, I think I learned looking back I learned that I was employable and I was good at what I did and I had a great network of people that were helping me. So you know, I went out for the coffee catch ups and did all that. But I think I underestimated my capability. But the challenge was that I was in an environment that probably hasn't seen itself since. That was pretty 10 difficult.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: So that was the hard part. But I, I learned that I had a wonderful network of people. I've made some wonderful friends even since then that I'm still in touch with. But I think you can start to doubt every aspect of your capability at a time like that and that show up in interviews. So you have to kind of re recenter yourself and unpack the whole scenario and then focus a little bit. But it's hard to do.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: Yeah. No, now I think it's, it is challenging to kind of pull yourself out of that and I suppose at the moment quite a few people are experiencing redundancy so I'm sure that they can kind of relate to that.
Looking back, what has been your biggest career highlight? What's been your biggest win?
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I'm quite happy with the, the, the role that I'm in at the moment actually. But I think that if I reflect on the, the GFC and what I, the story I've just shared.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Strangely enough the highlight relates to that because what I didn't know was that come out of that and go into a role that I actually didn't think was going to be great because the title wasn't executive but it actually, it sent me into a leadership role managing an on and offshore team for one of the biggest transformations for Wes Farmers at Coles and I learned leadership capabilities and styles and people and strategy that I don't think I could have learned anywhere else. And so I think at the time I didn't think that I felt bruised. I remember turning up for my first day at work thinking what have I done?
[00:15:12] Speaker B: What was your job title, Connie, out of interest?
[00:15:15] Speaker A: It was basically project Senior Project Manager and Program Manager for an E Commerce platform for Wesfarmers. And it was really, it was a really big piece of work that had gone wrong.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: So I was born fix it. And I just suppose I thought it was just going to be basic project management role or something. I didn't know a lot because it was a confidential project but when I walked in I realized that the importance was of it strategically. And I realized the difference it would make strategically to the. To Waste Farmers and Coles.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: And I inherited all these people that were just looking at me saying, okay, what next?
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: And it was a complicated program of work. It, you know, it had a code name of Project Orange, but was called Project Lemon. So it was just this kind of dynamic I had to sift through. But I think I walked in there thinking it would just be awful. And I felt it was beneath me. But in actual fact, I still look back and think, if I had not done that role, I don't know whether I'd be the leader I am today. And I can still remember I was fortunate enough in the role that I got made redundant. I was fortunate enough to get the Managing Director's Award just before I was made redundant. And it came with a travel voucher. So we booked a holiday to Broome, and I was at the airport with the family, and I still hadn't landed the contract for this role. And I remember we were in the lounge at the airport and the contract came through and I was finally able just to relax.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: And. And the kids were just gorgeous because they were only little. But I remember them saying, oh, that's like a gift, Mum, you know, like, you know, that is so lovely, Mum. And, you know, we're all having a hug because Mum's got a job, you know. You know, and we were on our way just to go away for a week to Broom. But it was just lovely. But it was. It was that fundamental shift where I think, never underestimate, you know, your abilities, but also that the title of a job may not necessarily relate to the outcome. And I think that's probably what I've learned as well.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And maybe it's a little bit deeper than that as well. I think sometimes we can get wrapped up in kind of the ego of a role and the title and what people think of that.
And maybe that process that you went through has taught you that actually there's much more, many more important things than having a C in front of your job title.
And I'm sure it sounds like you've become a much better leader and doing that type of role will have allowed you to have a much more insightful experience on something so strategically important. So, yeah, it's interesting.
The whole job title thing is interesting. Some people are bothered about it, some people aren't.
I tend to find the people that the more senior they get, obviously, the more bothered they are about it.
But sometimes it's actually detrimental, like chasing that job title.
What's kind of the biggest risk you've taken, Connie, in your career? What's a decision that you decided to go for that could have and maybe did go badly wrong? What happened?
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Um, just trying to think. Well, I think that that scenario I just brought up. Yeah, yeah, I think that, I think. But I think related to that though, one of the things that did happen during that time too, is that you could get a job if you went a couple of levels under.
And I went for, and I would say the company name, but I went for a couple of interviews through my networks and there was this one particular role that I got within hours, but it was the most arrogant interview I've ever had in my life.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: And when I went to the interview, the person hiring said, said to me in the interview, what would you do if I put you in front of a board and I yelled at you and I blamed you for something just so I wouldn't take the blame.
And I remember sitting there thinking, oh my God, like, how do you even answer that? And he was very arrogant. But by the time I got home, I'd got the job.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: And, and, and you know, we're talking about a time where jobs weren't difficult, were difficult to land.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: And I said no.
So I thought I've got to back my gut.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: And my roles here and I can't work for that person.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: And I said no. But it could, you know, it could have gone wrong or maybe I could have been.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I might not have got another. Yeah.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Yeah. For ages. But, but I just thought that would not be nice place. Place to go if we.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. You gotta trust your gut. What, what did you, what did you say? What was your answer?
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Oh, I think I just said it's not aligned to my own personal values and I'd like to continue exploring the market. I was pretty nice about it because you have to be careful about how you show up professionally. But.
And I just said, look, I think I need to search the market. It doesn't feel completely aligned with what I'm trying to do.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Very PC. But what also did you say to the taking the rap for him in the board meeting where the actual question. I'm curious to know what your answer was.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I remember saying that generally I like, I'm a fact based person and I think that it's focusing on facts and that I would always present a problem and a solution and I'd have the facts, but I didn't talk about the person. So I think I kind of danced around it, but that's what I do today. It's just about this.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, babe, that's good advice.
What. What is? Talking about advice. What's the toughest piece of advice.
No, sorry. What's the toughest piece of feedback you've ever received and did you take it on board?
[00:21:07] Speaker A: Feedback? I think the toughest piece of feedback was that I don't have enough bitch in me.
And surely a positive.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Harder. You need to be harder.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: You don't have enough bitch in. You've got to be harder if you want to make it.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Do you agree with that?
[00:21:26] Speaker A: And I. No. And I didn't. It was. This is probably a good. Oh, this would be 15 years ago now. But I remember thinking, but that's just not me.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: And the other thing is that there's a way to deliver feedback or there's a way to ruin someone's day and then they take their day back home, their family, and. And I just never really changed my leadership style. I just stayed the way I was.
But, yeah, that was.
It was straight. It was. It was interesting feedback. Yeah.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
What.
How's your leadership style evolved? Has it changed at all?
[00:22:05] Speaker A: I think I've probably changed. I don't think it's changed.
I think.
I think I just. I tend to lead by example a lot. I would say that over time, I've just developed greater confidence.
And as I've seen results over time, I back myself more.
I've always had empathy.
I'd say that just. And maybe it's a female thing, but I think it's confidence. Sometimes you just doubt yourself so much. But then over time, when you start to hit milestones and kick goals with the team, you realize it's shared accountability, which is always the way I lead. It's not just about me, it's about the people around you. But then I think when you deliver results constantly, you go, I can do that.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: So as women go, oh, I can't do that. And I can't do that because I can't tickle that. Oh, no, I won't put my hand up.
I think it's just you back yourself more. So that's. That's probably the main one.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I think.
I think women.
I've actually spoken to quite a lot of women executives recently, and it is incredible, the difference between male men and women. And men just, like, naturally, they're just like, yeah, why not? Why can't I do that?
Whereas women do tend to doubt themselves. However, I would say it is.
It can be a bit of a superpower as well, because that kind of softer side and that perhaps better listening skills and emotional intelligence, I think personally makes very often better leaders, I'd say.
What do you think if we just go on that kind of women versus men kind of thing, but what do you think are the things that women secretly carry in that leadership role that perhaps a male counterpart doesn't?
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's really interesting because I think the one thing that's overlooked a little bit is the ability for women to have that strategic thinking whilst being empathetic and enabling them to really drive those results with the trust, the collaboration and really juggle.
And I wouldn't say men are not good at it, but I think there is the ability to have a few things up in the air and just get it, get it done. Yeah, they just get it done. We've got this code in our little leadership network, but, yeah, I think women are good at that. I think there's a lot of that that just. Oh, yep, there's that, there's that. And there's not this. One thing at a time. And not that men can't do that because some men are very good at that, but women just tend to be able to be empathetic, be focused on what to do here. The team's over there. There's just a few things going on and I think women do. I've seen it. Even with female leaders around me, it seems to be easier. And it's not that men can't do it, they probably have to try harder, maybe, but women are just generally good at that, you know.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, generalization. But I agree, I think women tend to be better plate spinners because we've had to be.
Yeah, you know, we tend to do generally, not always, but generally do more at home and then we still want to have a successful career, so we've got to kind of balance that.
We tend to be the caregiver, so it might be an aged parent.
So I think we've kind of had good practice and good training at being plate spinners. So, yeah, 100%.
If someone wanted to step into a senior leadership role, what do you think they need to get right early on? What would your tips be?
[00:25:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I love this question, actually, because the first thing I would say is, do you want. Do you like managing people?
If you don't want to manage people, don't look at leadership because it's hard work.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: And you know, you're carrying people's emotions, the problems that they may have in at home. There's a lot going on there.
You don't want to manage people. Don't look at leadership. Look at a career where you're not part of. You're not leading a team. That would be my only piece of advice. Because you met, you do meet the odd person in leadership who should never be around people and you just go for, how did you get there and why are you here? I actually think it's quite.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's actually quite common that, yeah. People who sometimes end up in leadership roles and generally speaking, it's people leadership as part of that. Just they do well in their careers and then they advance and then become people leaders. Actually the worst people leaders. And it's probably because they've not actually taken a step back and thought, oh, where, where are my skills? Is people leadership for me? You know, just because you're good in kind of, you're an amazing project manager, you might not necessarily be a good people leader.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: What, what helps you, Connie, stay effective at your. At your senior level?
[00:27:06] Speaker A: Look, I have to say my d. My day starts early, so I get up at 5am and I walk the dog and then I come in to the city and go to the gym and so I'm in the office very early. But that, that's just my head clearing and there's no like, you know, scrolling and doing lots of social media in the morning. It's about me and my time. Yeah. You know, I listen to the news, I might read something, listen to a podcast, but that's that the way I start my day is just. It's nice and slow and there's a bit there for me around fitness, but just a nice clear mind.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: And you know, that's just. It works for me, but I don't, I don't quite like if I'm just up and then straight at work. I just, I don't know, there's something about time that I don't like.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kind of that routine, structure time to yourself before the day starts. Yeah. Love it, Love it.
What would you tell your younger self?
What advice would you give Connie as she's starting her career in kind of the 80s 90s?
[00:28:13] Speaker A: I'd probably say back yourself more and don't doubt yourself.
I mean, don't get me wrong, imposter syndrome still kicks in for everyone, I think, at some point. But.
But I would say just have more Confidence in your abilities rather than constantly doubting.
Is that okay, can I do it? Because there's so much, when I look back, you know, I, I think there was a lot of that even, even as a, as a young mum, like trying to juggle everything and thinking I'm probably not that good at that because I've got a baby at home or whatever that was. I would just say back yourself.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that this is such a common theme that I'm seeing all the time and it's kind of pretty much most women leaders would say, yeah, just, you know, back yourself. You can do it.
Yeah, 100% love it.
Okay. And what do you think are kind of the non negotiables to be successful as a leader?
[00:29:17] Speaker A: I definitely think empathy.
I think in the world we're living in right now though, I would say be present.
You know, there are a lot of people that just quite often, like I've just started even with my own leadership team, like we've laptop down just for the first, even if it's for the first part of the meeting, people are getting distracted so much, whether it's phone, whether it's trying to be in a meeting and typing emails whilst you're in a meeting so you're not listening. Yeah, I think being present is just a huge part of our world anyway. But I think as a leader there are times where you need your laptop open and you might. And I'll say to someone, I'm going to take notes. So actually discipline that. I'm not looking at email, I'm taking notes. And if I feel that it's a meeting where even that's inappropriate, I'll actually, I've still got the old fashioned paper and pen, I'll do that. It depends on the audience. But I think being present is really important and I think we've forgotten how to do that because everyone thinks we have to be on and juggling. But I think leadership's about empathy and being present. And I think if you forget those two things, you trip up along the way because you haven't heard something or you haven't been there for someone.
And I think leadership's really important about those two qualities. I mean, yes, there's a strategic side, yes, there's what you need to deliver, but that's a default with leadership. But I think you can't be an effective leader without the talent of your team and the talent around you.
So if you can't be present for them and you can't be present in the moment you just. Yeah, it's just ineffective if you haven't got that empathy and presence.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I guess it plays to your point before about leading by example and leading from the front. So if you're off on your phone, I don't know, checking your latest feed or whatever, they're going to pick up on that and think that that's acceptable. So.
Yeah. Do you. In terms of note taking, do you use AI and things like that now? Are you.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: Yeah, to make it easier.
Yeah. And that's actually helping in that respect. If you just get AI to do that. Right. And no one needs to look at the laptop, you know, in that respect, because then it just. It pushes it out.
We're quite specific about when we use AI, though, of course, because if we're talking about something confidential, we're just a little bit careful about it. But sure. Yeah, I think so. I think there are. There are good places for AI to help complement leadership.
[00:31:39] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%.
All right, my last question for you, Conning.
If you've had the worst day imaginable, what do you do to kind of wind down?
[00:31:51] Speaker A: I always focus on my family because they're a great support network, but I think to wind down when I get home, I would never have a drink of wine or anything because that's the worst thing you can do after you. You can start to get into a bit of a habit of that one. But I know taking the dog for a walk or going for a walk, like, you know, I'll go for a walk with my husband or, you know, sharing it with someone, too, but you also have to focus on what's important as well, you know?
Yeah, I think. Yeah, I think. And, you know, you take the dog for a walk, you watch the dog smell roses and trees and, you know, they've got it down pat. They've got no worries in the world. And you look at them and think, Yep,
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: But, yeah, I think there's a lot to be said about going outside and getting some fresh air and talking to your significant other and unpacking it, too, because quite often what you have sometimes even thought about yourself and internalized is probably not that bad when you start to talk about it.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: Don't take it so it's disrupting your sleep.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Okay, look, that's a wrap. Thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate your time. It's been great to chat to you.
[00:33:02] Speaker A: Lovely. Thanks, Jill.
