Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Suite at the Table. Hosted by Jill Ryder. Each episode brings you honest conversations with senior technology and data leaders about the choices, challenges, and defining moments that shaped their journey.
Because every seat at the table has a story, this podcast is brought to you by Precision Sourcing.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Welcome to today's episode of Suite at the Table. I'm very excited to have Peter Wilson with me. Big welcome to you. Thanks for joining me.
[00:00:27] Speaker C: Thank you, Jill. Great to be here, as they say.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Yes. So, Peter, you are the MD of NTT Data Business Solutions, and I'm really keen to just have a deep dive into your career, your lessons learned and just have a chat about you.
So maybe if we start with your career and if you go way back because you've got a really interesting career. You've, you've, you've covered a lot of industries, even the recruitment game.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: I have. I ran a listed recruitment company.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So you've been through a lot of industries, a lot of different roles. Which has brought you to your role today is if you look back from when you first started, how has your career turned out versus what you expected? Was it always a really well planned thing and you were just like ticking off things or is it really changed and evolved as you've kind of grown with it?
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Yeah, it's evolved. You know, there's a quote from Mike Tyson, which I absolutely love, is that everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face.
And I went to university and thought that I had a plan and that I was going to go for the big brand companies.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:01:41] Speaker C: And I would apply for a lot of internships or placements, whatever they were called in those days, and I failed on all of them. So Nestle, Amco, all these big companies and no one wanted to have a bar of me. It probably reflected my grades coming out of uni and the fact that I was having more fun than I was studying.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Sounds very familiar.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: Yeah. But I was really lucky because at the time I was going out with a lovely young lady whose father was essentially running a large company in Australia. And he said, peter, the best thing for you to do at the moment is to go join a small company because you'll learn really fast.
And so then I did that, and then that company happened to be in technology. I had no idea what technology was. Not that I'm a dinosaur, but technology wasn't really the thing of what it is today.
And so I found a small company to start in. And, you know, I started there as a sales coordinator and then quickly moved into Product management and sales and marketing management.
And then I decided that I'd done that part of my career, which was in user land, for want of a better term.
And the next stage for me was to probably go into the wholesale business. So then Hewlett Packard HP was one of our biggest suppliers at the first company I worked at. So I got into distribution, selling their products, and then I got on the HP wave, which was not only printing, but then they made their way into notebooks and PCs and desktops and all those sorts of things. And then I went and worked for hp. So, you know, my plan was, is that I wanted to get experiences in every area of the channel so that I was a rounded individual and I wanted to cover sales and marketing because I guess I always thought that I'd love to be a general manager because who doesn't want to be the boss?
[00:03:21] Speaker B: It's got pluses and minuses, does have
[00:03:23] Speaker C: its minuses, but you only worked it out when you get there.
So that was kind of how I formed my career. And then I remember I was trying to work out what would be next, because at hp, I went and talked to the MD of the country at the time, and I said, I'm ready to be on your leadership team because I've been a really strong performer, a great individual contributor, and I think I'm probably doing a little better than some of your direct reports. What's the plan?
And he said, did you actually say
[00:03:49] Speaker B: it like that, Peter?
[00:03:50] Speaker C: Pretty much.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: How did that.
[00:03:52] Speaker C: Not well.
Not well.
And then I remember sitting back there and I was probably a little bit jaded by what the requirements were to get to that next level of leadership.
And I probably decided that that wasn't the place for me to be. So I went back into him the next day and said, I've absorbed everything he had to say. I think I'll resign.
And so I did.
Yeah, well, that was me bold, without
[00:04:20] Speaker B: anything to go to. You were.
[00:04:21] Speaker C: That's the plan. You don't have a plan.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:24] Speaker C: Yeah. So. So that then took me on a. On a different path. But. But, you know, I went through a number of different organizations to get experience. Not that I moved regularly, but, you know, it was great because you put yourself out there and you kept finding another home.
And then gradually, you know, I found Datacom, and they needed someone to start their business in Victoria. And I met a wonderful guy called Michael Brown, who was the CEO of Australia at the time.
And it just worked. You know, I went in there as a sales and marketing Manager for a new business. Because I just acquired a company. There's probably only about five of us in Victoria.
And then I quickly become the director. And then that gave me my path to go and look after federal government as well, and then become the CEO of Datacom. So, you know, those chances that you took actually create doors that open and give you opportunity.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:14] Speaker C: And then from Datacom, you know, like you said, I went and ran a listed company because I wanted to get listed experience, but I also wanted to get more into Asia, and they had a big China business.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Is that the recruitment business?
[00:05:25] Speaker C: That's the recruitment business.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: Is that what made you take that role?
[00:05:30] Speaker C: There was two things that motivated me to take that role.
Well, three things, actually. Firstly, I wanted to run a listed company.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah, okay.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: Secondly, I wanted to get more experience into greater Asia and especially China.
And the third thing was, is that they need to probably reinvent their business model. And so it was exciting for me at the time as well.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:05:49] Speaker C: Yeah. And that went on an amazing path. Lots of change. But we probably got to a position where I thought the business needed to go and the board thought they wanted to take it was not really aligned. So you can't really be the CEO of a company when that's the case. So it was time to move on again.
And at that stage, I had some career. That was my career. But in my personal life, I had some changes. You know, I became a single parent. So that made me reflect on what type of parent I was. And I probably wasn't a great one because I was never there. And so I probably decided to take some time out and become a father and focus on that more as a priority and then build my way back through consultancy. And as I did some work with a company called Springpoint, you know, become pretty evident to me that I love the world of consultant, but I much prefer the world of owning the outcome.
[00:06:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:36] Speaker C: Because you go in and do these wonderful pieces of work with lots of talented people, but once you set the plan, the strategy in place, they execute, and you don't really get the thrill of the win or the outcome. And so that's what got me back to NTT eventually.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Okay. And then here we are today.
[00:06:51] Speaker C: Here we are today.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: What a journey.
[00:06:53] Speaker C: Well, yeah.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Amazing. That's really interesting. Is there any ever a time when you look back and you mentioned about the Tyson quote, punch in the face. Is there any ever a time where you nearly walked away when things were really not?
And you were like, I've had this maybe not when you went and resigned, but maybe you were. I've had it with the corporate world or whatever it may be.
[00:07:20] Speaker C: I don't think there's really been a time where I've said, you know, I'm going to walk away because I'm very driven and I like to win. And so quitting is not something that comes easily to me.
But there's been lots of challenges get presented to you, you know, and you know, I remember Michael Brown, that guy that got me to Datacom, died just before I become the CEO of Datacom, you know, and if there's ever a moment in your life where there's self reflection that's in front of you, you know, this was meant to be my most best achievement. Right. I've become a CEO finally and this is the guy that I want to work for, that I respect, that I look up to. That's a wonderful mentor and he's no longer going to be there on the start of that journey. So you reflect a lot. Then you go, is it worth it? And what am I really doing?
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can imagine it was a big moment of kind of self reflection. It does kind of shine a spotlight, doesn't it? Something like death on what's important, what's not important.
[00:08:17] Speaker C: Absolutely. And you know, the hardest times in my career have probably been all around death. You know, there's that business that we built in Victoria. You know, I remember I had one of the best young guys that was a superstar in the making.
His wife died in a car accident tragically. And I remember I had to announce that to the business, you know, and that's probably one of the hardest moments I've ever had in my professional life. Getting that right out of respect for him and out of respect for what he's going through and then having to convey that story because he was a, and still is a much loved individual. Right?
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:49] Speaker C: So, yeah, it's got nothing to do with work half the time. It's got to do with people all the time.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
What's been.
Yeah, that's tough around the whole death thing, especially if you've, I suppose, not had to do it before and kind of navigate that situation and how best to approach it.
If we flip it the other side. Is there any time where you're like, I'm just killing this, I'm loving life, I am cooking on gas. Has ever been a time in your career where you're like, yeah, I am doing so well here.
[00:09:30] Speaker C: Look, I think we all have a few moments in our career when we get to that point, whether it's an individual contributor role where I was a sales guy, so I was very targeted based and as a result of that performance was pretty easy to measure. So there was many a time then when I thought I was kicking it out of the park at hp. One of the great things that I got to do where there was to launch their mobile computing range in Australia and Toshiba was the notebook of choice. And I remember when we got our brand to number two, you know, out of nowhere and that was killing it as well, you know, so there was times as an individual contributor when you're doing that.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:08] Speaker C: And then at Datacom, you know, we just went on an amazing run for 10 years and, you know, I thought I was killing it consistently.
Um, in fact, I, I think I probably only missed my number one quarter out of almost my entire time there. So, yeah, it was just a wonderful journey. Right. But you know, there's absolutely no doubt that success is a poor teacher because, you know, the best learnings that I've had is when I've had some of my toughest moments.
But yeah, there's been some wonderful runs.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Is there ever a time in your career where you've made a decision and it was a big risk and it could have gone wrong? It might have gone wrong.
Have you ever experienced that at all?
[00:10:52] Speaker C: Yes, I have. I've actually got a very high threshold for risk, which is one of my derailures actually, so I need to be careful about that. But yeah, I remember one of the best times around risk, which cause good story, is that probably the biggest deal that I ever did as a sales rep. I put so much investment in this large resourcing mining company in Australia and won't name them, but you get there pretty quickly. And I hadn't done my quota for probably 2/4 before that because of the effort that was required to get this deal over line.
And then I flew to Brisbane with a really close friend of mine now, but the guy that was my manager at the time to negotiate the final contract. And I needed this deal to happen, actually keep my job.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:39] Speaker C: Because I put so much in there. Right. And then what become pretty apparent is that we weren't going to get the doodle done that day. So we went up on a day trip which had no luggage, no nothing, and then they insisted that we come back the following day. And I think this was part of their strategy as well, by the way.
And so we had to go find a hotel. We had to buy some supplies.
You know, the world was probably a little different, you know, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, convenience stores went on every corner, and then we had to go back the next day.
But just as we're living this moment and being told this, someone hit the wrong button on the whiteboard that moved and showed their whole game plan as to who was gonna play what role in the room and how they managed to negotiate the deal with us. And so we just taken a quick look at that and said, we'll see you tomorrow.
And so as we found that, you know, procurement 101, that was being put to the test there, we went back and we didn't move our position. And we left the next morning, not the night before, in exactly the same position because we were very clear on what we would negotiate, on what we wouldn't.
And so just having that.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: So what they were proposing wasn't acceptable.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: And anyway, then as this unfolded over the next couple of weeks, you know, I'm talking to the customer and saying how my brand internally is nothing and I can't get anyone to do anything for you anymore, and I'm probably going to be out of a job. And this is really disappointing because I thought this was going to make both of our careers.
And my key stakeholder said, I still think there's a way to get the deal done. You need to come to Brisbane. Said, not spending another dollar on your account. Why don't I meet in the Qantas Club in Sydney?
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:19] Speaker C: He flew down to the Qantas Club in Sydney and we did the deal.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Oh, amazing.
[00:13:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Wow. How did you feel when you thought it wasn't going to go through?
[00:13:29] Speaker C: That's life.
Because I knew that we'd done everything that we could to, you know, probably I focused on a little bit too much. I wish I had a blended pipeline, which is what I talk to all the sales guys about now. Some short, medium and long terms.
I think it made me be very conscious of whale hunters. And if that's their only story, well, I've lived that life. I don't want other people to live it. Yeah, but, yeah, so it was really concerning as to what was going to happen, but you just had to stay the course.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Do you think you would have lost your job if the deal hadn't gone through? If you hadn't flown down and met
[00:14:05] Speaker C: you deal with one problem at a time?
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's good. A good story, that. And great resilience as well, I'd say.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: Well, you know, you've got to walk away sometimes to do the best deals. Yeah. And that's in every aspect of your life. You know, sometimes you just gotta pause if you've done all the work in the lead up to it and you're very confident that you've done the work in the right style of work, you don't lose very often.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:29] Speaker C: It's just the timing thing.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, it's so true.
Another thing that comes to mind, which we talk about in our work, because obviously we're in sales as well, is not leaning too much into the successes or the failures. Trying to remain without being boring, but without trying to remain steady. So. So not getting overexcited and like feeding into that. And similarly, like what you've kind of described with the failures, if. Cause they're inevitable, but to be able to look at it and go, okay, well, yeah, I might change that and then just move on. Yeah, I think it's.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: Well, it's funny, isn't it? You know, everyone talks about celebrating success, but at the end of the road on some of these bigger deals, you just numb.
You're just so thankful that you got there.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:15:15] Speaker C: You're so relieved.
Yeah.
And so the celebrations can generally be a little bit dampened down flat.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Really?
[00:15:23] Speaker C: You know, and so the real highlight comes when you've actually deployed something at the end of it.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:15:28] Speaker C: But from a salesperson, you've probably moved on by that time and then it's left the rest of the business to have those service.
But yeah, some of the lows are probably around, you know, what's next after you've done this massive deal, which your whole focus was on that, and then you're just so grateful that you've concluded it because it could have gone either way.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Yeah. That's interesting. What's kind of the average sales cycle? How long do these deals tend to take to go through?
[00:15:54] Speaker C: Well, six to 18 months.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Oh, gosh.
[00:15:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's. If you don't get it after 18 months.
[00:16:01] Speaker C: Well, if you don't get it after 18 months, you know, there's a high cost of investment. There's a lot of people who put so much emotion into getting you to that place. Because, you know, one of the things that I rely on a lot is discretionary effort. And people buy into you. They buy into the opportunity, they buy into the excitement. What we could win and then what we have the opportunity to deliver. So it can be very flat if you don't get there.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. 100% what's the best piece of advice that you've been given, Peter? And it might be something that you followed or not followed.
[00:16:33] Speaker C: Generally try and follow advice because the people that give it to me have probably earned the right.
[00:16:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:39] Speaker C: Okay. And so, you know, they are trying to tell you something. You may not see it through the lens that they've communicated to you in the day, but if you take the time to reflect, it's generally spot on.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:52] Speaker C: So there's been lots of pockets of advice.
One moment was to be humble, which I thought was interesting.
And so I had to unpack that a little bit.
But, you know, that was a good story in hindsight, as I worked out what I was actually being told in that I was running a business and our whole drive was to have a million dollar net profit month. And I was so proud of the business and what we'd achieved that I was probably a little bit boastful in communicating that.
And so that wasn't me being humble.
And as a result, the success and the excitement and the achievement fell on deaf ears with a lot of my peers because they just saw me as gloating and boasting.
And so that was probably a really nice reflective moment to say, well, what do you mean by that? Because I'm not naturally an arrogant person, but I just got caught up in the moment and the confidence and the excitement of what we had achieved.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: And so, you know, I decided to take that forward because, you know, I don't want to put my peers or my colleagues offside just because I've succeeded and they haven't. So, you know, that's something that I say to my son now, to be humble.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:05] Speaker C: He goes, what do you mean? You know, so you work through that little dialogue with him. But that's a, that's a good one.
And then probably another one is always le. Something on the table for someone else, you know, and that was given to me by another mentor that had run a number of listed companies. And we're talking about the share market and the spikes and the troughs and different things like that. And then it got down to how do you do deals with people? Right. You know, lots of people always talk about win win and those old sayings, but, you know, the easiest one for me was, is leave something on the table for someone else so that they can see where they're going to take it to the next level.
And as a result, you stop chasing perfection because you're actually comfortable that, you know, this is good in its Own. Right. And we. Or someone else with you will get there at the end.
So there's a couple reasons.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's. That's.
[00:18:57] Speaker C: But my favorite one. Yeah. Which might be my own bit of advice.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: Is you gotta go slow to go fast. And if anyone who's ever worked for me, they'll get. They were sick of hearing this. Because what you think you see now is not what you're gonna see tomorrow. So don't rush into it. And if you can pause or hold back, just try and keep it for as long as you can. So go slow to go fast. And then even when you get a new hire, you know, they come in with a lot of different experiences and some exposure to stuff that the company probably needs at the time, which is why you hired them. But they've got to really understand your business first before they can actually apply that context. And if you're rushing into it or going too fast, you miss the subtlety there. So your message actually doesn't land. Whereas if you take the first 30 days, then take another 30 days, you see where your own commentary was probably not well formed. So you can shape it and you get yourself off to a better start in that business.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, that's really useful. We always talk about that, like, not rushing into things, also not reacting as well.
I think we've.
Or more so if something's gone wrong, like just going in and reacting to it and, you know, you might have an argument with someone or what have you, but if. If we can just slow down and. And kind of listen and understand what's going on, you often come out with a completely different viewpoint. Yeah, yeah.
Jay's very good at all that type of thing. He often says that as well. The same. The same sort of slow down to speed up or. Is that right?
[00:20:30] Speaker C: Yeah, go slow to go fast.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, it's so true.
Everyone talks about balance. It's kind of the buzzword.
Work life, balance. What does that look like for you?
[00:20:42] Speaker C: Work life balance.
I'm very deliberate about my time.
I know when I'm at my best, and I know when I'm not so great.
And so I structure things around that.
And people can say to you, well, that's the luxury of your role. But we all have that luxury if we're deliberate and if we know when we're at our best and if we're really good at communicating how that works for others to their benefit.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:06] Speaker C: So, you know, I probably start thinking about work all the time, but I'm Very good at letting it go as well. So I don't take work home with me.
It's very rare that I do. If I do take work home, it's probably a problem with someone that I care about as an employee as opposed to a customer. Issue.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:26] Speaker C: And so, you know, I'm just very good at setting boundaries around all that sort of stuff.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
Has that changed as you've become a bit more mature?
Have you always had that way of working and being able to kind of leave things at the door?
[00:21:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Or.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: Right. Okay.
[00:21:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: Because I think it's really important because it can. I know I haven't always had that. So I've been up during the night and it's normally people related issues.
And I've been up many nights when I was younger worrying, have I said the right thing? Should have said this. What's going to happen?
[00:22:02] Speaker C: Well, my issue is not staying awake thinking about those things. My issue is when I wake up, I start thinking about those things because I'm a morning person. So my best work gets done probably between six and two.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:22:14] Speaker C: After two, I'm probably declining.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:17] Speaker C: A long way from my best. So, you know, if people really want to get me out of my comfort zone, they love to organize important meetings late in the afternoon.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: All right.
[00:22:25] Speaker C: Okay. I use my title, so to speak, to avoid them as often as I can. But that doesn't always work.
But. Yeah. So knowing when you're at your best is important.
But yeah, I wouldn't take it home. I might take it home, you know, for the first 10 minutes, just as I digest what's happened and I reflect on the day. But then I'm generally very good at letting go. So balance is about recovery.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:51] Speaker C: You know, and I'm pretty good at understanding when I need recovery.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: And I'll look for avenues to do that.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:57] Speaker C: And I also like to end the week under my terms, not someone else's. So I'm very good at being deliberate around my diary so that I know that I can end the week closing off the things that are important to me and then I think are going to accelerate others next week.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm sure that type of approach means that you have greater resilience and you come into each week feeling a lot more refreshed and not kind of drained. And that filters down from the top as well.
[00:23:28] Speaker C: I hope so.
But you know, there's always support that you need to give others to let them know that it's okay.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:35] Speaker C: You know, it's okay. For a date to slip, not that that's acceptable consistently, but certain things aren't important that they have to be done today.
And that balance is key to knowing what I've got to spin the plate today and what plate I can let wobble a little bit more.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:49] Speaker C: And that judgment is generally what separates really successful people and people that are just good.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And do you think that you mentioned this earlier as well? The role of wanting everything to be perfect versus actually, I don't want perfection. I'm okay with 80%. Do you think that factors into.
[00:24:09] Speaker C: Because life's about compromise.
I mean, people don't like to hear that when I give some relationship coaching, albeit that I should never give relationship coaching, because I've suffered and I've not been very good. But I guess as you get older, you do work out that the best relationships are those that can compromise well with clear communication. And so work's no different to that. And as he's trying to scale out teams, you'll come to a standstill very quickly if you're chasing perfection. And so what you've got to put your energies to is, well, what's the 20 to 30% that I'm willing to compromise on?
Um, and what is the 70%? That is just the standard that we need, and we can't compromise on it. Yeah.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:52] Speaker C: So, yeah, that's a big, big part of it.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I think it's a lot more efficient if you can kind of let go of wanting that 100% perfection every time. Just nothing.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: You got to be accepting with teams that people are going to get there, but get there on a different path and that's okay.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
You've had a very impressive career, so you've obviously been very driven.
How has that relationship with ambition changed? Has it grown? Is it kind of like, adjusted as kind of.
[00:25:26] Speaker C: You've gone through your career, be humble.
So I think it has changed.
I think, you know, ambition when you're younger is about yourself.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:38] Speaker C: You know, an ambition as you get older is about others or about doing something bigger than just yourself.
So I still have a lot of drive. I've got desires, you know, I want to achieve things.
I probably not so concerned about the recognition aspect of it, but it's just that I want to do stuff.
And, you know, some of my team will say, everything's a competition with me still, that I have to win. Right. I don't even see that playing out half the time. But if you're going to participate, you might as well do your best.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:10] Speaker C: And so ambition now is very much centered around a collective as opposed to myself. Whereas when I was younger, it was very much around, what am I achieving and how am I going to get there? So it was around self interest. It was around that next promotion, the next title, the next course that I was going to do.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:28] Speaker C: Okay. But now it's probably got a bit more perspective and a lot more broader than what it is. But that doesn't mean that I'm less ambitious.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:26:36] Speaker C: It's just different.
[00:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah. It's probably reflective of your roles as well, isn't it? Now you're. You're leading an organization versus when you first started, just being kind of perhaps one standalone person initially.
[00:26:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
What's something that you've let go of then that's made you lighter or perhaps a better leader? Is there anything that you've let go of?
[00:27:05] Speaker C: I want to go back to that perfection one because, you know, it is a. It's an easy one because I've already mentioned it.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:12] Speaker C: So maybe I need to do better and give you something else.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Gotta be perfect.
[00:27:19] Speaker C: What have I let go of?
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Have you ever had any bad feedback from.
[00:27:26] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Team members?
[00:27:28] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: How is that?
[00:27:29] Speaker C: That I'm intimidating.
Yeah. And so my intimidation plays out in the way that I'm interested. I'm really curious.
[00:27:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: But if you're a more junior member of staff and I start asking you lots of questions in the canteen, then you're starting to wonder, why is he taking such an interest in me? And so that has played out quite poorly for me on many occasions, where that member of staff will then go to their manager, who then go to their boss and eventually get back to me and say, what's. Has Peter got a problem with me?
It's not like I have no problem at all. I just want to get to know you.
[00:28:04] Speaker B: That was me being nice.
[00:28:05] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: Because.
[00:28:06] Speaker C: Because I'm interested. Because if there's one thing that, you know, I really focus on is that I think I see the big picture early.
But strategy and big picture is irrelevant if I can't translate it to people and their role and what they need to do to make it real. And you can't really do that if you don't talk to people at every level of the business. And so my interest and curiosity gets in the way sometimes because I'm great at asking questions and I'm really good at asking more questions if I'm really interested in what you're doing.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Speaker C: Okay. And if you're just trying to have lunch. The last thing you want is to get MD wanting to ask me lots of questions because I didn't even think we were going to have this interaction.
Yeah. So I've had to. I've had to be coached out of that by the staff to don't let Peter talk to them here. Don't let Peter talk to them there.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Does everyone give you a wide berth now? I know he's coming in, he's coming.
[00:29:00] Speaker C: Until they find out that I'm the guy that brings the fund.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: All right. Okay. Are you well known for that as well?
[00:29:05] Speaker C: I was the after 5p. Can't creep into the before 5 pet there. Ah.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: I gotta cut off like a threshold.
[00:29:11] Speaker C: You've got to be professional, I don't think. Oh, you made the set of standard.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
Absolutely right. If someone wants to step into a senior role, what advice would you give them?
[00:29:24] Speaker C: You can't go into a senior role if you're not doing really well at what you're meant to be doing already.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:30] Speaker C: So one of the things that I do find frustrating is that people like to comment a lot outside of their lanes and they're probably not proven in their own domain first.
So I think that the first thing someone needs to do is to be really competent consistently at what their job is.
Once you've done that, you then gotta fill the white space.
And so I love working with people that do a great job in the area that they're meant to be working on, but they see gaps in your business as you're scaling and they want to own a problem and they want to own that white space to make it real because they see the opportunity and they do that not at the expense of their day job, but they just take on more and it's that discretionary effort compound.
And then you need to be a great collaborator. So you need to be someone that can show that you can talk across the business and that you've got relationships across the business. And I think if you nail those three things, then you're going to be a good leader.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Good tips. Good tips. Okay.
If you could go back and talk to your younger self. Peter.
[00:30:37] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: What would you do differently? I don't want to know about your relationships, but more work wise. Tell me about your relationships if you want.
[00:30:45] Speaker C: I think I'm coming across as a bit a man, because I'm certainly not.
[00:30:50] Speaker B: I don't. No, I don't think you do great
[00:30:52] Speaker C: journeys of growth for me.
Look, I think that I was very driven by Numbers by dates, by results.
And I think that what I would like to have done differently is to focus more on being a little bit more present, but to also be slower in the journey.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: Yeah, okay.
[00:31:14] Speaker C: Right. Because I think that there were things that I missed that I might have ticked the box boxes that were the easy measuring points. But I think I could have learned more, I could have developed more, I could have had a better network, I could have had more relationships if I just went a little bit slower. So I think that, you know, on reflection, if there's advice that I give young people that I see are as driven as what I was, is to be slower.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:31:39] Speaker C: You know, you don't have to get there tomorrow.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Take your time.
[00:31:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Look at what's going on.
What do you think your secret power is like? Why. How have you done so well?
[00:31:52] Speaker C: It's not very exciting, actually, is that I do the fundamentals better than anyone.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:31:58] Speaker C: Yeah. So I.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: Basics.
[00:32:00] Speaker C: I'm just consistent, you know, I know what's required and I do it day in and day out. The formula doesn't really change that much. Might need an adjustment here or there, but I'm just consistent.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:32:12] Speaker C: Um. And so whatever those fundamentals are that are required for you to be successful in your role, be consistent and predictable. Because people like that.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent the predictable side.
And like, people like to know when I'm coming to work, this is what I'm going to get from people.
[00:32:28] Speaker C: Totally. And you know, my guys that work with me for an extended period of time, you know, we can walk into meetings now and they'll diagnose the problem and decide the answer without me saying much because I ask the same questions most of the time.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:32:41] Speaker C: It's not that they don't know the answers. They've probably just got a blood blockage that they need to hear someone else challenge that point of view or to ask the question in a different way. So that consistency in doing whatever those foundations are day in and day out, regardless.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:56] Speaker C: It's the key to success.
[00:32:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. No, that's good.
[00:32:59] Speaker C: So you could call it the.
What's that? Interest. The compounding interest effect on your career.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. That's good. Now I like it. Makes sense.
And you've had a terrible day.
What do you do to wind down?
[00:33:16] Speaker C: Well, you have a drink.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: What's your drink?
[00:33:19] Speaker C: No, you can't say that everyone. Of course they would. My drink of choice at the moment is margaritas.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:33:27] Speaker C: Spicy or no. Which Straight up. Yeah. But with lemon, not lime.
[00:33:33] Speaker B: Controversial.
[00:33:34] Speaker C: Yeah. And with Anega. Is that how you say that?
Tequila? That's the top one. It's much smoother than the silver. Not necessarily. You can buy a bottle of that for $80, which is cheap for spirits.
So you just gotta get your brands and do your homework. But that's the drink of choice. But no, if I've had a really bad day, I won't drink because that's the last thing I want to do. I'll get a bottle out because that never leads anywhere good.
So I wouldn't do that. But I will try and get some physical activity in or just spend some time outside or go for a long walk or try and hit some golf balls or do something that's more of energy releasing. Yeah, that's outdoors.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:18] Speaker C: So that's what I would really do.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: And then.
[00:34:20] Speaker C: And then have a drink.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Have you found, as you get older that you can't drink wine as well? Because I have hangovers. Oh, right. We were just discussing this at the weekend that we're going to stick to margaritas moving forward.
[00:34:33] Speaker C: Well, you know, as a strategy, in the last couple of months, I've started to have more white spirits than I ever have in my life.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: Life.
[00:34:42] Speaker C: Because I'm a big wine guy.
So what I've. What I did initially was when you say you can't drink as much, I just used that as an opportunity to drink better quality. So my budget was the same, so my intake was less, but the quality was higher.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:34:58] Speaker C: But even having gone through that little window of experience, I'm now, you know, not always going for the wine.
[00:35:04] Speaker B: You're going for the margins.
[00:35:05] Speaker C: Even had a cup of tea the other night.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: Very English.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: Peppermint licorice. That's not.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: Not English breakfast.
[00:35:11] Speaker C: No, it wasn't. The Twinings, you know, Gold standard dip in the cup.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: Well, that is a wrap. Thank you so much.
[00:35:19] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:35:19] Speaker B: It's been lovely to chat to you. I've really enjoyed hearing your story. It's been amazing. Thank you.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: Thanks for having me in.
